ircd/services switch for CollectiveIRC

As the name implies, discussion of general topics occurs here.

Should CollectiveIRC switch to X3 for services?

Yes
9
56%
No
7
44%
 
Total votes : 16

ircd/services switch for CollectiveIRC

Postby katsklaw » December 12th, 2007, 6:54 pm

It's been suggested that I start a new thread asking for votes on the ircd/services switch on CollectiveIRC.

There is an interactive help file found at http://evilnet.sourceforge.net/x3/x3help.php to show all the commands users and opers could have access to.

There are literally hundreds of commands and features that can be toggled on/off for channels and users alike, has a built in Anti-spam monitor for channels and hundreds of other things, most of which we currently don't have.

HelpServ is not helpless, it's an interactive trouble ticket system that will be monitoring #CService to better support you when you have issues.

It will support both registered nicks and username bases auth access for those that don't believe in nick registration. It also include both Xop like and numerical access levels with no need to toggle them on/off. They are both on all the time! and much much more!
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Re: ircd/services switch for CollectiveIRC

Postby Jobe » December 12th, 2007, 7:05 pm

Any chance the mods/admins could add a poll to this thread so we can get an idea of everyones view?
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Re: ircd/services switch for CollectiveIRC

Postby Iccyh » December 12th, 2007, 7:17 pm

Done.
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Re: ircd/services switch for CollectiveIRC

Postby katsklaw » December 13th, 2007, 1:02 pm

thanks iccyh,

I do apologise for being so off topic on your forum. It's just that no one really visits our community forum, so we have to go to where the users are to talk to them :)

We have it set-up at irc.ircmojo.net ports 6660-6669, 7000 for everyone to check out. You are welcome register nicks, channels and account settings as we will be using that set of services and it's database for the switch.
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Re: ircd/services switch for CollectiveIRC

Postby Iccyh » December 13th, 2007, 1:12 pm

There is no such thing as being off-topic on these forums, feel free to post up almost anything you wish. Besides, IRC is a huge part of the community for us, since most communities within the larger TDZK community have no forums of their own etc, IRC is where we all stay in touch.

Any time stuff comes up, you're definitely welcome to post it up here.
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Re: ircd/services switch for CollectiveIRC

Postby katsklaw » December 13th, 2007, 3:00 pm

Thank you very much :)

I'd also like to mention that we DO have a collectiveirc community mailing list that all users are welcome to join. :)

http://groups.google.com/group/circ-users

We are also working on some longevity privileges. Please remember that this is not in stone as to all the details. We are still working on it. However the rewards system WILL be incorporated with the new services package.

http://wiki.ircmojo.net/index.php/Rewards:Longevity

This website is also temporary, after the switch the webserver will simply be redirected to a different folder to reflect a change. This way the current system can stay in tact while we write the new one.
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Re: ircd/services switch for CollectiveIRC

Postby foamy » December 13th, 2007, 7:35 pm

Further to what Iccyh said: This is called 'General' for a reason. Argue about the merits of T-Rexes in F-14s v. bear armoured cav if you want!
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Re: ircd/services switch for CollectiveIRC

Postby Rover » December 13th, 2007, 10:20 pm

As I haven't neccessarily payed attention to what we have now, whats the major differences from what we're currently using and what we would be switching to?
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Re: ircd/services switch for CollectiveIRC

Postby Harbinger » December 13th, 2007, 11:21 pm

More options/control.
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Re: ircd/services switch for CollectiveIRC

Postby Jobe » December 14th, 2007, 5:09 am

Add to that more stability too ;)

Also fewer services bots clogging up the network too.
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Re: ircd/services switch for CollectiveIRC

Postby Solarisphere » December 14th, 2007, 11:16 am

Not much of a case being made for the no camp...
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Re: ircd/services switch for CollectiveIRC

Postby Deception » December 14th, 2007, 11:36 am

Yeah I'm wondering if this will be as wonderful as everyone says? Are there ANY downsides?
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Re: ircd/services switch for CollectiveIRC

Postby Jobe » December 14th, 2007, 12:48 pm

Deception wrote:Yeah I'm wondering if this will be as wonderful as everyone says? Are there ANY downsides?


Only 2 that I can think of.

1) youll all have to re-register accounts
2) at present the only way to hide your real host/ip is if you have a registered account
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Re: ircd/services switch for CollectiveIRC

Postby katsklaw » December 14th, 2007, 2:57 pm

Jobe wrote:
Deception wrote:Yeah I'm wondering if this will be as wonderful as everyone says? Are there ANY downsides?


Only 2 that I can think of.

1) youll all have to re-register accounts
2) at present the only way to hide your real host/ip is if you have a registered account


In addition, they are not main stream services. They have they abilities of main stream services like Nick/Chan/MemoServ etc. However they have a lot more to them.There are literally hundreds of commands available to users which could intimidate users, especially newbies. Please don't be swayed, the more I play with these services the better I like them.

With vast reconfigurability comes vast complexity, the two are synonymous . HOWEVER, these services has managed to have a very sane set of default settings. This allows even the newest users to learn just a few commands and have a safe environment, while allowing advanced users all the power of configuration they could possibly desire.

A few commands to get you started on a journey:

/ns help commands
/cs help commands
/ms help commands

ciao,

kat
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Re: ircd/services switch for CollectiveIRC

Postby Iccyh » December 14th, 2007, 3:00 pm

Or just !help.

As someone who was an IRC newbie on a network that used X3, I have to say that I found it pretty easy to learn channel management stuff while being pretty convenient. Using commands in channel (with !command) is shorter than /cs command #channel, while it also allows you to see more experienced users getting stuff right.

Besides, most newbies won't know or care, while the simple !commands in channel will be very easy and very accessible.
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Re: ircd/services switch for CollectiveIRC

Postby katsklaw » December 16th, 2007, 5:36 am

currently !help only works on channels that have CServe in it. We are in the process of making it so !cmds can be used in any channel even thouse without a services bot in it.
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Re: ircd/services switch for CollectiveIRC

Postby GAThrawn » December 22nd, 2007, 10:41 am

[09:30] Closing Link: GAT by rage.irc.hypermutt.net (USER: Bad username)

epic phail now i have to do something to connect
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Re: ircd/services switch for CollectiveIRC

Postby lene » December 22nd, 2007, 12:06 pm

*facepalm*
<lene> i'll become a $5 whore before that~~
<Fluffypingu> i'll pay $5.01!
<lene> :o bonus!
...
<Feosmiao> ... wouldn't tipping a whore be redundant?
<Fluffypingu> she'll give you extra service?
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Re: ircd/services switch for CollectiveIRC

Postby foamy » December 22nd, 2007, 3:43 pm

Question: Who voted no?
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Re: ircd/services switch for CollectiveIRC

Postby katsklaw » December 22nd, 2007, 4:22 pm

GAThrawn wrote:[09:30] Closing Link: GAT by rage.irc.hypermutt.net (USER: Bad username)

epic phail now i have to do something to connect


yeah, the "something" you have to do is enter a username in your client that is RFC compatible as things should be in all ircds and should have been all along by everyone on IRC .. but aren't. So the "epic phail" is the POS software that doesn't honor established rules, in this case Unreal.

It's not your fault you've been spoiled by ircds that don't give a crap about "the rules", but you have been.

The PROPER way things are done is ident's must be alphanumeric only and only the first character may be capitalized. The ident RFC is FAR older than IRC and IRC as a protocol adopted it's usage back in 1988. It's ircd's like Unreal that "spoil" a user into thinking they can have everything and a bag a chips when the fact is that wasn't ever the case.
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Re: ircd/services switch for CollectiveIRC

Postby Darius099 » December 22nd, 2007, 4:29 pm

FOAM-E wrote:Question: Who voted no?


Me because I don't give a rainbowssss about having a bunch more buttons I dont need and I sure as hell don't want to reregister rainbowssss.

I already did though :/
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Re: ircd/services switch for CollectiveIRC

Postby Alucard » December 22nd, 2007, 9:22 pm

RFC compliance is great. Software that does not follow the RFC is bad. Hard work is all well and good.

Problem is, things that have worked for years (going all the way back to Nihilogic) are now broke. People are prevented from connecting and don't have a clue why. People have to re-register everything. People have to get used to the new commands. People cannot do some things they used to be able to do.

The average luser only cares that he no longer has his nicknames and channels, and doesn't know how to re-register them. So he has to ask someone and then spend time re-setting everything else up. And everything is named differently, and the syntax is totally different from what he's used to. And he complains. Habit is a powerful force.

The power user knows what he's doing, and misses lots of things. Like mode +L (redirect). Like the extbans (+b ~q and +b ~n). The ability to akick *!*@*. The ability to have more than four nicks in a group. Flood protection (+f).


I probably should have posted it here, too, but a few days ago on IRC I gave Jobe a whole list of things I didn't like about the new ircd/services. Including the lack of SSL or Zip links between servers. And spamfilters. Sorry for not doing it here, too.


I'm trying to complain in the best sense here. I'm not trying to belittle your work or insult you. I am trying to say what I don't like. If I were seriously running a busy channel that needed active oping as well as automated help from the server & services (as I have and still do elsewhere), I would not pick Nefarious nor X3.


At least some of the complaints will die down in a few days, when people get over the shock and the learning curve. People can and will get used to most of it, but will grumble.
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Re: ircd/services switch for CollectiveIRC

Postby Jobe » December 23rd, 2007, 9:48 am

Well regarding the max of 4 nick per group, that setting has been changed and raised to 10 nicks. If it needs to go higher it probably will.

Im sorry for how frustrating this is for some/most of you. We are doing our best to improve servcies for you all. With the X3 services setup we can add features here and there to help, even as far as creating commands that youre more used to to alias existing commands.

So can I kindly ask instead of saying you hate the setup, can you suggest ways in which it can improve as it is. If thing still havnt settled down in a few weeks then we will have to switch back. But we do hope you will all be able to get along with the new setup.

One thing I will say that has upset me is how people who had a chance to vote against the change before it happened, complained in a way, which to me, seemed like they were not informed at all even though this poll and thread was made clear even in #redial's topic.

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Re: ircd/services switch for CollectiveIRC

Postby GAThrawn » December 23rd, 2007, 11:12 am

i don't know or really care what RFD and a proper ident is I use irc to talk to people so its my fault the 3 other networks I use now and the ones the tdzk people have used make connecting and using there network to simply talk to people faster then in game pm's easy well sorry i guess
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Re: ircd/services switch for CollectiveIRC

Postby Jobe » December 23rd, 2007, 12:48 pm

I would just like to add, for those of you who have been confused when using /msg NickServ and got the message "NickServ: No such nick." I've added a NickServ which is simply a complete mirror of AuthServ, all the same functionality, just through the nick NickServ too.

So for any confusion that caused. :(

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