Feature: Community, Communication, and the Administrators

As the name implies, discussion of general topics occurs here.

Re: Feature: Community, Communication, and the Administrators

Postby Deception » November 30th, 2007, 10:27 am

Well, I can follow your argument Neil and it does make sense. I just can't say that I agree with you :p

I don't believe that what you did was in the best interest of the game or the best thing to happen to it. However, It's great that you guys were a group of people that cared greatly about having fun - that's what the game is for and people often forget that. Although your opinion is skewed, I think it just comes down to different personalities of players, you may have been the most fun to play with for some because of your alliances approach but not for others - simply because people will want different things from the game.

I think you extremely overestimate how much people are jealous of your group or the close-nit alliance that you had, that's great - but other alliances definitely had a great time too. All in all, I respect your position on the matter, I can see where you're coming from - I just don't happen to agree with it. And I think that's where most people here are at, this conversation isn't really enlightening to anyone anymore - we should stop trying to flog a dead horse and move on.
Deception
Member
 
Posts: 105
Joined: November 8th, 2007, 5:52 pm
Location: New York, NY
IRC Nickname(s): Deception

Re: Feature: Community, Communication, and the Administrators

Postby neil1001uk » November 30th, 2007, 11:50 am

Well at least i made sence :-P

And what you say is totaly correct, and im not debating that you and others had fun in other allaiances, but we were very disiarable as i saw how many applications we got from people as i was part of the core leaders for OC i can say this. So we must have been doing something right :-P
neil1001uk
An Hero
 
Posts: 69
Joined: November 13th, 2007, 4:16 am
Location: England
IRC Nickname(s): Neil, neil1001uk

Re: Feature: Community, Communication, and the Administrators

Postby Thor » November 30th, 2007, 2:57 pm

Liwenna, i think the name was more because it sounded good than any ideological reasons. Fury werent named fury because they have burning rage within them. I imagine they just thought, hey thats a cool name. Also, no offence but i think we would know how we are treated :p. Even now in this thread youve seen accusations of us 'all' being cheaters just because of one or two. How would you like to be in a game as a hunter where every other kill you make you get accused of using scripts? I had a whole collection of messages of Ronin accusing me of scripts and cheats just because of a pod in a game thats for that reason. The worst thing about all this cheating claims is when i think back to earlier rounds and just how much cheating that went on, by players across the full game, some names that may surprise you, its amusing its suddenly so bad if one of us has a history. In original 1x the hacks were many, for instance there was a money hack that i know a hell of alot of people exploited by spam clicking. Multiple accounts were so obvious it was obscene. Even going through the rounds, we seem to have worst stigma than people like catch? when in the main the majority of us have just played the game as a form of entertainment.

A modern case of tester abuse? lilal with ice(?) in nomad. I cant remember the exact details but i remmeber being fairly vocal, along with alot of others about just how wrong we felt it was.

Liwenna, the problem we always had with testzone was that it was virtually closed to us due to association. It was also distasteful that it was usualyl dominated by one or two alliances. We can percieve that there are some genuine testers that dont abuse their position, but by default they find themselves along with their alliances at an advantage. If i was a tester, the moment the round got started i would help my alliance as best as i could with the knowledge i could safely give. I wouldnt use TZ to do stuff then, but if say beforehand i recognise a ship is absolutely useless, id pass that onto my alliance when the round starts whilst others would have to learn by trial and error. Were in the main suspicious because we have reason to be. We know were not popular with the admins nor alot of what was the playerbase, so do you blame us for closing in on ourselves? When Neeo/Adi/Dume got banned in 2.7 message after message hit the boards of, oh they got what they deserved etc i knew it etc cheaters all of them etc, private messages hit our inboxes aswell. Very few outsiders actually stood up for us and said oh wait, maybe it could be a mistake, instead 100% we were guilty. If we still had tdzk and you were banned tommorow for multying, would you expect everyone to jump up and declare shes guilty, youd expect people to show some reserve and wait and see. Im fairly certain i remember Iccyh and Mak being vocal 'for' us in a sense, whilst i remember a number of others who showed their views of a different nature. Can you blame us for actually closing ranks when generally the game despised us.
Thor
Junior Member
 
Posts: 52
Joined: November 12th, 2007, 4:05 am
IRC Nickname(s): Creslin

Re: Feature: Community, Communication, and the Administrators

Postby Andrew_tM » November 30th, 2007, 3:53 pm

This thread took off. I wanted to respond to a few things as I was mentioned a few times. Firstly I want to raise, however, more of a side point. An appropriate synonym for elitism could be said to be meritocracy. The word a lot of people are grasping for here is nepotism, I think, which has the desired sentiment.

Mainly Iccyh mentioned I was going to comment on the post-2.7 test zone. This was entirely selected, purely by the Admins. This in the most case meant just Jerle. I have no idea if anyone else could see it or if they could, what they could see. It was selected, purely by Admins. If you wanted to join, you put in an application. There is no more to it than that. Testers had no influence on other testers' positions. Impact on game design was also minimal - there was too much to be tested as to functionality and whether it worked as to spare time on hypothesising what the game should look like. Additionally, Jerle made it clear that the 2.7 TZ would veer away from this more.

liwenna mentions that she has flown with testers and not seen a real clear case of tester abuse. I have flown with testers and without testers. I've also used the test zone more than most, and monitored others use of it too.

There was abuse. I'll confirm this without a hesitation. Anyone who has spoken to me in Nomad, especially fellow testers who saw my many comments on this, will know this. The misconception is that it was systematic and organised. It was not. I recall my own comments when I first got into test zone in 2.6 - that if this was a conspiracy, it was a pretty poorly organised one - and that was in the Fury dominated 2.6 test zone. Any abuse of test zone was usually for individual gain or interest. I say usually carefully, because I have seen examples of alliance leaders who were to use it for their own advantage, however small.

This misconception is exaggerated because at the beginning of the selection, the focus was on who was in the 2.7 test zone and not who wasn't. IrishDrunk may have been (a spectacularly misguided well-intentioned pick, I suspect), and appointments such as that got the attention. The absence of Iccyh and Nightmyre, to name just two of the driving forces behind a lot of the preceding roster of testers. Many others did not apply. The Nomad test zone was fresh and different. When you analysed the alliances who had members in it, it was fairly evenly balanced.

I want to give a handful of examples of the sort of abuse that happened. It was minor, irritating and stupid because it was patently obvious and the advantages it gave was meaningless. I think of Gord despairing if you're going to act like a criminal, think like a mastermind. I saw a lot and found a lot because I bothered to check. Previously, noone had been that fussed.

The two most obvious examples are Lilal's mass NPC killing sprees for no discernible reason, and the ice exp 'exploit'. Feel free to push this as a Fury advantage all you like, but if you've seen, as I have, Iccyh, Mak and other Fury leaders repeatedly despair at Lilal never shipping up in main or helping at all, it's a little comical. The ice exploit was so meaningless and stupid due to the inevitable prompt alteration as to be irrelevant. Besides that, we had SouthernSkies and Sable doing a couple of dry runs for Cerulean Ice's early 3.0 raiders, not to mention soon-to-be-admin Imperialist. While still in TT in beta, Sable organised quick raids based on the knowledge that it would be available. Again, utterly pointless, especially in the meaningless beta. I offer this as an example just to point out to the limited scale of the 'widespread abuse'.

This was about as severe as 'test abuse' got. There were other stupidities - testers not noticing bugs right in front of their faces, frustrations with irritating bugs by some strange freaks of coding leading to them ranting the full details of them in public channels - and complete breakdown of testing - players forgetting to notice testing was needed because they were hunting or wanted to op or play solitaire or what have you, laughable instances of trying to claim they were the one who solved the bug when they never even participated in any work on it, competing to show how senior they were by how much minor stuff they could leak. All mostly nonsensical stuff, but systematic of the playground that was TZ.

There was nothing majorly abusive in TZ in Nomad for all that I could see - despite as many attempts to conspire this from all possible angles from many people whose grasp of conspiracy theories was greater then their grasp of the realities.

Test zone advantage was a myth in the most part. I suffered greatly from it - the state of the game in beta meant I never played around with it at all, as I spent the entire time looking for bugs and trying to address the myriad of those that others found freely and easily. For me as a player, being a tester was a constraint. It was not an advantage. I'd like to detail a couple of examples again.

Early into 3.0 while testing at Valhalla (the station in Admin World that contains everything - essentially your one-stop test shop), while getting some sample weapons to test something, I noticed Shurikens. Everyone who played Nomad knows they were beautifully evil. I could easily forsee a ship design around them that would be very much to my tastes. At the time I was factioning away from Namo, I forget where to however. I then saw them again in the weapons list, but knew they attracted my attention because I already was aware of their potential. It wasn't until someone else pointed them out to me and their potential on a carrier that I felt I was able to actually align towards Namo without having had an advantage from test zone.

Raiding was especially problematic. Even with test zone settings [Armoire of Invincibility countered all weapon damage, so was easy for testing and you had no idea of the damage you would be taking too], it was easy to get a feel for the capacity of the different ports, what would survive them, what would be necessary. I know both myself and Lorelei were extremely constrained by this when constructing raiders for main zone, and ended up simply throwing together in main large defensive ships and seeing what we took, then analysing the results from there. Not exactly the best strategy compared to what we could calculate, but we were calculating from TZ knowledge.

Another example is the rather amusing intentional joke story about the TZ advantage I used to work out how to kill the Rose Queen. This is amusing to anyone who was in TZ as we all know that we tested NPC behaviour in small ships with Armoires. Armoires didn't affect drones - so we'd see the Rose Queen and run like hell. I probably died 3-4 times to it by not running fast enough. You gained nothing from knowing that the Rose Queen's drones could wipe out a base destroyer's defenses, for example. But it was still uneasy knowledge. It was only when reports were posted on the forums, and the Rose Queen's rating found in main, that I could start to look at the problem genuinely. Even then, I felt constrained to very cautious out-loud hypotheses in the AD private channel; followed up with a test shot to confirm these.

These are all minor examples compared to the grand percieved conspiracies of entire groups subverting test zone for their own aims. Because that didn't exist. Minor private pokes, perhaps, but nothing either systematic or coordinated as is percieved.

This post has been more of a catch-up over the preceding couple of pages than a genuine rebuttal or response to any individual post. In a sense, it is irrelevant, as much of the debate somewhat paradoxically focuses on the exclusion of Outcasts from the 2.6 tester group.
To punish me for my contempt for authority, fate made me an authority myself.
- Albert Einstein
Andrew_tM
Barista
 
Posts: 343
Joined: November 7th, 2007, 12:24 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
IRC Nickname(s): Andrew_tM

Re: Feature: Community, Communication, and the Administrators

Postby Iccyh » November 30th, 2007, 6:47 pm

Meritocracy isn't what we had pre-2.7, mainly because while we attempted something like it, there were no way to remove non-performing or inactive testers.

One other thing to note with what AtM mentioned is that the admins were informed of the abuse in every case he's mentioned, without being removed. I suspect that the players in question were reprimanded, but whatever they did was not considered sufficiently problematic to even justify removing them as testers.

Anyway, on a completely different note:

The stuff on tdzk.com is encouraging. If this is how things are going to be in the future, where the admins actually take some time to use the front page to make announcements, then I have some hope that things will be better.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
Iccyh
Don Quixote
 
Posts: 359
Joined: September 6th, 2007, 6:33 pm
IRC Nickname(s): Iccyh

Re: Feature: Community, Communication, and the Administrators

Postby CABaaL » November 30th, 2007, 7:03 pm

Hello, I am an Outcast, so whats up?

Oh congrats Neil seems you learned a few new words, neeo still awful at spelling even with the spell check.

God I hate fury.

Thank you that is all.
1.0 - 3.0
User avatar
CABaaL
Member
 
Posts: 136
Joined: November 8th, 2007, 7:57 am
Location: Dubrovnik, Croatia
IRC Nickname(s): CABaaL|afkish

Re: Feature: Community, Communication, and the Administrators

Postby ECAFRUNOTABMUN » November 30th, 2007, 8:18 pm

I was in outcasts.
I was also a member of staff.

Being in Outcasts did not smack you down with the "admins hate me" sticker. If they didn't think much of you, then it'd probably be a matter of personality problem. Lets face it, *alot* of people behaved like retards. HAR HAR ITES TEH INTERWEB! It was a growing problem for a very very long time (think 2.2/3-ish) and because no-one really gave a care, it got to the point where the behaviour was common place and "acceptable".

Also, Thor is very much on the money in regards to knowing people's aliases. While having a sub-com status, I never knew who Carlos was, and only ever did in the last day of the 2.8 chaos round. This could've simply been in part that most people know that I didn't condone cheating/think highly of Carlos, etc, etc.
ECAFRUNOTABMUN
Junior Member
 
Posts: 58
Joined: November 30th, 2007, 4:22 am

Re: Feature: Community, Communication, and the Administrators

Postby zmaniacz » December 1st, 2007, 10:01 am

ECAFRUNOTABMUN wrote:Also, Thor is very much on the money in regards to knowing people's aliases. While having a sub-com status, I never knew who Carlos was, and only ever did in the last day of the 2.8 chaos round. This could've simply been in part that most people know that I didn't condone cheating/think highly of Carlos, etc, etc.


Srsly? Even you didn't? God, what a broken system.
Sometimes I get beat up, Sometimes I'm the beater, Sometimes man my feet hurt from walking so long
User avatar
zmaniacz
Insurance Salesman
 
Posts: 579
Joined: August 29th, 2007, 11:57 pm
Location: Mountain View, CA
IRC Nickname(s): ZmaniacZ

Re: Feature: Community, Communication, and the Administrators

Postby Reue » December 1st, 2007, 10:05 am

ECAFRUNOTABMUN wrote:Being in Outcasts did not smack you down with the "admins hate me" sticker. If they didn't think much of you, then it'd probably be a matter of personality problem.


Totally disagree with this statement, I saw the evidence first hand from how a friendly chat with Jerle suddenly turned into great suspicion and effectivly questioning as soon as my Oc membership was mentioned.
Reue
New Member
 
Posts: 47
Joined: November 15th, 2007, 11:21 am

Re: Feature: Community, Communication, and the Administrators

Postby iamastolenbmw » December 1st, 2007, 11:10 am

I didn't realise who carlos was for most of the round, mainly because I never thought about carlos or if he was playing. I would imagine that the more paranoid amongst you probably would of seen something sooner but most people who look for something find something. Or make crazy claims, like omg Greg doesn't rock he sucks, preposterous i know.
iamastolenbmw
New Member
 
Posts: 15
Joined: November 13th, 2007, 2:57 pm
IRC Nickname(s): Greg

Re: Feature: Community, Communication, and the Administrators

Postby foamy » December 1st, 2007, 1:37 pm

What I found fascinating is that when I discovered that Wolverine was flying under the Outcast tags, and asked around, I heard a lot of other people tell me they'd known and thought he was clean because, y'know, he had an account now.


I figured I'd ask. You all know what happened afterwards-- and that was the 2nd time it had happened, too. OC leadership simply didn't give a damn about the rules of the game where those rules conflicted with their tribal loyalties-- and those are the very last people you'd want to give authority to in a game.

Re: 'All alliances have multis/cheats' fallacy:

Maybe; it's difficult to screen everyone, so it's conceivable people can slip through. What matters is making a geniune effort beforehand to exclude cheaters and rulebreakers, and, in the event that someone is brought to your attention as a cheater, what you do with that information.

Some alliances had stringent and enforced anti-cheating polices. Some did not.


Re: 'Testers are all cheaters!' fallacy:

No. Test positions, in and of themselves, don't constitute cheating; for one and by definition, they're expressly admin-allowed and not, therefore, against the rules.

Re: 'Testers abuse wasn't serious' fallacy:

No. I can think of at least one example, one very famous one, of tester abuse on a game-breaking scale: Carlos' cash exploit [the one systematically denied by IA, banned from discussion by the mod team, and uninvestigated by the admins until Aelanna was playing around and ranked people by their bank balances-- and found one with over a trillion in his personal account]. The actual mechanism Carlos used can probably be revealed now.

Carlos discovered, at some point in TZ [where you could change your account without waiting for the reset interval] that apostrophes in a playername would hide players from appearing in the notices. At the time, it was also known that multiple-kills yielded multiples of cash. And so Carlos went and combined the two to generate infinite amounts of money, totally invisibly.
In the grim future of redial, there is only bitterness.
User avatar
foamy
Barista
 
Posts: 668
Joined: November 7th, 2007, 10:38 pm
Location: Everywhere.
IRC Nickname(s): DarthFoamy

Re: Feature: Community, Communication, and the Administrators

Postby Darius099 » December 1st, 2007, 2:48 pm

FOAM-E wrote:This is the post I was referring to, Thor. So far as I'm aware the only people VT was discussing were Carlos and Wolverine-- could you point out where, exactly, he said you cheat? But yet you felt the need to post the above denial. Quite intriguing.



No actually, I was talking about several people in the Axis of Retard, including Neil and NEEO, who bragged about using trigger scripts all over, and have been proven to have used them by the administration several times in the past. Of course, now they'll claim LOL WE WERE JOKING U NUUB, but it doesn't really matter.

Everyone with a brain knows how dirty they play, hell, at this point it's like beating a completely dead and buried horse to me. To most people it's not worth mention that they cheat. Why? Because it's ponies assumed at this point.

Oh and Thor precious, I swear because they are words, words that fit better than any other word in the sentence I am writing. If you think I really give much of a rainbowssss past the exact time I am writing the post, then you'd be right. But if you think I remember that I give a rainbowssss about it five minutes later, then you'd be wrong. As much as I care about TDZK, it's just a whistle stop in my world tour of hobbies.
If you can read this your eyes are working correctly.
User avatar
Darius099
Member
 
Posts: 128
Joined: November 7th, 2007, 10:44 pm
Location: Columbus, GA
IRC Nickname(s): VT

Re: Feature: Community, Communication, and the Administrators

Postby ECAFRUNOTABMUN » December 1st, 2007, 4:26 pm

Reue wrote:
ECAFRUNOTABMUN wrote:Being in Outcasts did not smack you down with the "admins hate me" sticker. If they didn't think much of you, then it'd probably be a matter of personality problem.


Totally disagree with this statement, I saw the evidence first hand from how a friendly chat with Jerle suddenly turned into great suspicion and effectivly questioning as soon as my Oc membership was mentioned.


Really? I've been associated with the Outcasts group and flew with them for a long time. Even when I didn't, I was always in contact with them. Granted, OC membership probably puts you on a slightly back footing, but honestly what do you expect? It comes with the territory. It's like how IJ players were laughed at, how people expected Warriors/SG to just jump pellmell into the fray for the sake of it. You can't have your cake and eat it to, but to simply say that "I'm in outcasts, and therefore am on the insta-hate admin list" is stupid. May make you misaligned, but jesus, I though the persecution complex got old ages ago with SH.

FOAM-E; From what I recall, Wolvie's ban was only a one round ban as far as I recall, as at the end of the day, he was banned for multi accounts.

In regards to Carlos, I had to operate on 2nd hand information. Now, if one person says it's this account, and someone says it's this account on the forums, and short of one persons word against the other, they're just 2 different accounts. Due to having to remain anon I couldn't exactly send people a message, nor just go out and ask people. When I actually did find out who Carlos was it was the first time I actually first hand information to go on, as I had some actual physical data to go on. Regardless of how overzealous some people thought the mods were, I tried very very hard not to ban people who were legit. And if I banned the wrong account, it'd in turn probably make him more cautious or some such, etc. Despite what Neil claims, I was never told by higher ups not to ban Carlos or Wolverine "because they could bring down the server".
Last edited by ECAFRUNOTABMUN on December 1st, 2007, 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ECAFRUNOTABMUN
Junior Member
 
Posts: 58
Joined: November 30th, 2007, 4:22 am

Re: Feature: Community, Communication, and the Administrators

Postby Andrew_tM » December 1st, 2007, 4:36 pm

FOAM-E - I'm fairy sure that it's impossible to prove carlos' money abuse was discovered through playing around in test zone. Both facts were very commonly known and it didn't take much to put them together - I know for one that I'd seen the scenario and its potential and thought no more of it because I naively assumed these things were better monitored than they were.
To punish me for my contempt for authority, fate made me an authority myself.
- Albert Einstein
Andrew_tM
Barista
 
Posts: 343
Joined: November 7th, 2007, 12:24 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
IRC Nickname(s): Andrew_tM

Re: Feature: Community, Communication, and the Administrators

Postby foamy » December 1st, 2007, 6:43 pm

I was a tester at the time. It was checked, and confirmed, that Carlos had tried out his exploit in Test prior to going the whole hog in Main.
In the grim future of redial, there is only bitterness.
User avatar
foamy
Barista
 
Posts: 668
Joined: November 7th, 2007, 10:38 pm
Location: Everywhere.
IRC Nickname(s): DarthFoamy

Re: Feature: Community, Communication, and the Administrators

Postby Thor » December 1st, 2007, 11:38 pm

If the game missed Wolverine flying under his actual tag as a leader of Outcasts then thats the games fault. The admins KNEW he was playing, they had always known. It only becomes a problem when the playerbase kicks up a fuss.
Thor
Junior Member
 
Posts: 52
Joined: November 12th, 2007, 4:05 am
IRC Nickname(s): Creslin

Re: Feature: Community, Communication, and the Administrators

Postby neil1001uk » December 2nd, 2007, 2:05 am

FOAM-E wrote:
Carlos discovered, at some point in TZ [where you could change your account without waiting for the reset interval] that apostrophes in a playername would hide players from appearing in the notices. At the time, it was also known that multiple-kills yielded multiples of cash. And so Carlos went and combined the two to generate infinite amounts of money, totally invisibly.


Respect!
neil1001uk
An Hero
 
Posts: 69
Joined: November 13th, 2007, 4:16 am
Location: England
IRC Nickname(s): Neil, neil1001uk

Re: Feature: Community, Communication, and the Administrators

Postby foamy » December 2nd, 2007, 7:35 am

Thor wrote:If the game missed Wolverine flying under his actual tag as a leader of Outcasts then thats the games fault. The admins KNEW he was playing, they had always known. It only becomes a problem when the playerbase kicks up a fuss.



And a simple "He was only banned for one round" statement would've knocked the whole issue mostly flat. There'd have been grumbling from people who thought he should've been permanently banned [and, in fact, had thought he had been] and gloating from others, but it would not have had the same issue. But the point is, every time Wolverine was rediscovered by someone, the admins rebanned him and reiterated his permaban. One mistake, that it was a one-round ban he'd been given, might be an honest error.

Twice is not. It'd also help, of course, if any of you arguing that Wolverine was only banned for a round, or had cut a deal with the admins, or anything of that nature could produce any kind of proof to back up your position-- since it contradicts the public record.
In the grim future of redial, there is only bitterness.
User avatar
foamy
Barista
 
Posts: 668
Joined: November 7th, 2007, 10:38 pm
Location: Everywhere.
IRC Nickname(s): DarthFoamy

Re: Feature: Community, Communication, and the Administrators

Postby Thor » December 2nd, 2007, 10:44 am

Equally a statement saying he was perhmabanned would have solved the issue. In 2.7 a player called Wolvie makes an account, flys with the same people in the same style, is on IRC as Wolvie in front of the admins. You have a long standing staff member in the very same alliance. Other alliances dealt with him as a leader in part. Then WHOAH Wolvie is playing? im sorry but if the admins missed that then more fool them.
Thor
Junior Member
 
Posts: 52
Joined: November 12th, 2007, 4:05 am
IRC Nickname(s): Creslin

Re: Feature: Community, Communication, and the Administrators

Postby foamy » December 2nd, 2007, 10:59 am

Thor wrote:Equally a statement saying he was perhmabanned would have solved the issue.


There was a minimum of one, and I believe there was one when he was initially banned and when he was found playing again as well.

Sooooooooooooo....
In the grim future of redial, there is only bitterness.
User avatar
foamy
Barista
 
Posts: 668
Joined: November 7th, 2007, 10:38 pm
Location: Everywhere.
IRC Nickname(s): DarthFoamy

Re: Feature: Community, Communication, and the Administrators

Postby Darius099 » December 2nd, 2007, 11:42 am

FOAM-E wrote:
Thor wrote:Equally a statement saying he was perhmabanned would have solved the issue.


There was a minimum of one, and I believe there was one when he was initially banned and when he was found playing again as well.

Sooooooooooooo....


He should have been permabanned either way, no question.
If you can read this your eyes are working correctly.
User avatar
Darius099
Member
 
Posts: 128
Joined: November 7th, 2007, 10:44 pm
Location: Columbus, GA
IRC Nickname(s): VT

Re: Feature: Community, Communication, and the Administrators

Postby Silly » December 2nd, 2007, 12:11 pm

What is the point of any of this? Everyone made their feelings perfectly clear about Outcasts, Wolvie, Carlos, cheating etc ad nauseum on the old forums. Do we really need to rehash it all now? That goes for both sides of the arguement. I was a #tdzk op in Outcasts for a good couple of months before I resigned my op position, and I never felt that the alliance I belonged to was an issue for the admins. I did receive negative feedback from a lot of the community regarding my choice of alliance but decided it's my own choice who I flew with. The two sides to this arguement are never ever going to come to agreement or even an understanding as the two view points are in direct conflict so for gods sake let it lie. I want to come back for fleets, give it a try and see how it fits in with my life now. I honestly hoped that what was left of the community could at least let bygones be bygones and just leave the past where it belongs.
Silly
New Member
 
Posts: 2
Joined: November 25th, 2007, 10:35 am

Re: Feature: Community, Communication, and the Administrators

Postby Darius099 » December 2nd, 2007, 12:21 pm

Silly wrote:What is the point of any of this? Everyone made their feelings perfectly clear about Outcasts, Wolvie, Carlos, cheating etc ad nauseum on the old forums. Do we really need to rehash it all now? That goes for both sides of the arguement. I was a #tdzk op in Outcasts for a good couple of months before I resigned my op position, and I never felt that the alliance I belonged to was an issue for the admins. I did receive negative feedback from a lot of the community regarding my choice of alliance but decided it's my own choice who I flew with. The two sides to this arguement are never ever going to come to agreement or even an understanding as the two view points are in direct conflict so for gods sake let it lie. I want to come back for fleets, give it a try and see how it fits in with my life now. I honestly hoped that what was left of the community could at least let bygones be bygones and just leave the past where it belongs.


We have no Fleets, so we're talking about an article that was written on what we do have to talk about - relevant current events, and specifically, the fact that TDZK core isn't coming back and anything related to that.
If you can read this your eyes are working correctly.
User avatar
Darius099
Member
 
Posts: 128
Joined: November 7th, 2007, 10:44 pm
Location: Columbus, GA
IRC Nickname(s): VT

Re: Feature: Community, Communication, and the Administrators

Postby JSG » December 2nd, 2007, 1:36 pm

why wasnt I a tester? HUH? HUH!?!?!? >_>

anyways im bored and dont really care about any of this but for some reason decided to post a response and I like pancakes
[Fragile]
User avatar
JSG
Junior Member
 
Posts: 97
Joined: November 8th, 2007, 5:23 pm
Location: Bitchigan, the upper
IRC Nickname(s): JSG

Re: Feature: Community, Communication, and the Administrators

Postby Solarisphere » December 2nd, 2007, 4:41 pm

Silly wrote:I honestly hoped that what was left of the community could at least let bygones be bygones and just leave the past where it belongs.


The past is all we have at the moment, there is no present and the information on the future is too sketchy to analyse (although we did give it a go).

Everyone likes to have their say, I suppose, and although some of us have posted about some of the issues coming up here before, Redial allows you to say it in a way that wouldn't have been permissible on the official forums. When people no longer have anything to say, or give up on trying to break the deadlock, then the thread will die.

Though I can see where you're coming from.
There ain't a problem that can't be solved with a good old fashioned row - so grit your teeth and stand your ground.
Solarisphere
Senior Member
 
Posts: 681
Joined: November 8th, 2007, 3:27 pm
Location: Colchester, England
IRC Nickname(s): Solarisphere, Solar

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

cron